One of my biggest pet peeves is having someone listen to me, but not hearing anything I say. It’s been a pattern in my life that men I know, especially men who are close to me in some regard, ask me a question them promptly ignore exactly what I just told them as they move on with whatever their brain is doing – which in cases of guys who may be attracted to me – their brain is already on sex and I’m still learning their name.
For example: Guy calls me in the middle of the day.
Me: Hello?
Him: Hi what’s up?
Me: Nothing I’m just at work.
Him: Oh, okay. So I was thinking….
He talks for several minutes without letting me get a word in edgewise and when I finally do-
Me: Hey can I call you back later I can’t talk on the phone for long.
Him: Why?
Me: Cuzzz, I’m at work.
Him: (irritated) What? Why didn’t you tell me you were at work? I didn’t know!
Okay, so there is an example of someone who doesn’t listen. But strangely these people are very frequent in my life. Primarily men. Men who ask where I want to go for dinner and I say anywhere I can get fries and then they choose a pizza shop. I ask a man to snag me a plain old drip coffee and they come back with a “Grande mocha with two pumps of raspberry, an extra shot of espresso and extra whip cream”. (his explanation – I’ll like it better) Thank you. But not what I was asking for.
I tell Admiral Fubar I’m working on my book – need to focus on my book- have to leave early so I can WRITE ON MY BOOK. The book comes out and I show him a copy and he says, “You mean a book? It’s actually a book? I didn’t know you actually meant a book, I thought you were just writing short stories for a magazine.”
I’m not sure what this is. Recently it seems to be getting worse. I talked with D while I was in Utah for Christmas and she seems to struggle with it too. I was raised with men ignoring my requests, interests and opinions. It comes with the territory of living in a society primarily Mormon so that the female voice is not heard.
The point is, I feel like I’ve come a long way in communication, negotiation and the art of tact – so how is it that I somehow keep finding the guys who look me in the face (or the chest) nod and say, “Sure. No Problem.” Then immediately go do exactly what I asked them not to do? How do I keep finding the guys that interpret “No. Thank you.” As “maybe if I ask 15 more times she’ll say yes…”
For me personally, it makes it very difficult to ask men for anything because I don’t have the fundamental faith that they can follow through. This is obviously not the case for every man – as I know many who are excellent listeners and I make such a big deal out of it that Matt even once asked, “What? Do you have some kind of problem with men listening to you?”
Actually, YES! I do. I wondered if it’s the way I’m communicating. I’ve wondered if it’s the way I am that attracts this sort of man to me. I talked with Saij and Erisian last Sunday and we got into the conversation about the male vs. female brain development as a fetus. High testosterone levels wire the brain in linear patterns, whilst lower testosterone wires the brain in a spider web. The outcome is generally that the female brain is actually wired for multitasking whereas the male brain is not. So I wonder, if I’m just talking to a guy while he already has his two maximum tasks in the front of his brain and when I ask, “Can you please stop at the next pullout, I need to walk around.” Twelve pull-outs and an hour later I’m yelling, “Pull the fuck over I’m going to be sick!” - is it just that by they don’t have room in their linear thought for a third objective? One: Drive, Two: Chat, Three: Find a pull-out so Athena doesn’t hurl in the car.
I’m angry about having to ask for the last five turn outs, “What about that one?” or “can we make that one?” I wonder if I can look at that bewildered hurt and understand – guys are just not wired to be good listeners.
What does this mean as I’m getting back into the dating scene? How can I fix my communication?
What do you guys think? Is there a connection? Is it a guy thing I should learn to live with? Or am I not seeing something?
20 Comments(+Add)
Yes, it’s a guy thing. We learn to tune out what girls say simply because they say so much! They talk like 6 times more than we do. We are concise and to the point. Why blather for a paragraph when a grunt will do? So we assume that 95% of what a woman is saying is extraneous. If it’s the important part, she’ll be yelling it.
First thought: is something other people do something you can “fix”? It may be something you have to accept, at least for the other people part.
As far as the part you’re doing… Straightforward clear communication is rare, I’ve found. So people aren’t used to it and it may throw them off. We (humans, both genders) are wired to expect hidden motives in others, I think. So we overthink when presented with a statement from someone else. This is more pronounced in men, and even more so in geeks. Again, just my thoughts.
Don’t stop asking for what you want in clear language. But realize that others can ignore or refuse your requests. Even friends. Though my closest friends are the sort I trust to say “no” or “yes” rather than ignore.
duh. how old are you? and you’re just realizing that men and women communicate differently? LOL just a little kidding. You seem like a very intelligent woman.
I came across you on YouTube. I had just posted yesterday a video of some pictures I took a Kolob Canyons when I was there in 2003. Youtube shows you similar videos when you watch one and yours from your visit to Kolob Canyons showed up then I watched your video “Bliss Storm”. I’m a gay man, but find you extremely interesting and thought I would check out your theblissquest.com site. I like your honesty in emotion and communication.
Just wanted to give a big hello to you!
More about the communication thing. I think women listen more because they know that when people talk they want to be understood. Men think that the talker wants the problem fixed, so they listen enough to find out what the core of the talk is about then they are already thinking of solutions or fixes and how they will state it and they maybe are patient to let the talker finish talking but the rest of the talk isn’t so important. And sometimes he will just cut in because he knows the answer to the problem and why waste time letting the talker keep talking? Sort of like that. I hope that made sense.
Try being maybe very assertive at the start of the conversation and tell the guy “this is REALLY important that you know I only have 5 minutes to talk.” Set realistic expectations and I think most guys will appreciate that and respond to it. Just saying you’re at work doesn’t really mean anything because not everyone has jobs where they can’t disappear into a long phone call once in a while. [ooops, here I go, trying to fix your problem - it is a guy thing! But you asked!]
If by some crazy act of fate, you manage to find a member of the male sex who has the talent of actually listening to what you say instead of picking out what they think are the important words, consider yourself victorious.
They do exist, however In my humble opinion, its something your going to have to just deal with. Be persistant, be forward, and make yourself heard. Perhaps if you make yourself heard consistantly enough with the same person, they will learn to pay attention.
*waves hand* I found one!
My fiance actually has this annoying habit where he’ll be all quiet, so I’ll say “you’re not even listening!”…and then he recites back everything I just said. So you know, there are men who listen. And trust me, it’s nothing to do with the amount a person talks, because I talk A LOT, and he seems to manage listening just fine.
DOM! DOM, ARE YOU LISTENING!!!
Brian!!!
Welcom home! How was your trip? I’ll pop by your blog and see what you’re up to. I hope you had a delicious relaxing trip!
And you are right, but you usually are
XoXo
Hello MAP,
Welcome to the BlissQuest!
Thank you for finding the youtube post. I don’t think anyone knew it was up there
I like your appraoch, and the idea of what you’re saying. I think this is just something I’m going to have to wrap my brain around as being fundamentally different and then I can remember not to get bent out of shape when I’m repeating myself.
Thanks for visiting
Hello Lara
I agree. It’s not all of them, obviously. But I think I will put that on my list of important attributes when searching for the next mate.
1) I want a man I only have to remind three times.
Is that asking too much?
Maybe I should just lower my standards….
Epiphany, it sounds like your fiance rocks!
Right on!
Does he have a brother?
Hi, Athena! My trip was awesome but i am glad to be back home. So. Many. New. Stories. And I still say gracias instead of thank you; the best part is the unexpected “de nada” I often get back!
I know Athena’s point is more about listening than talking, but I feel I must correct a persistent myth that Dom mentioned: that women talk more than men. Mark Lieberman at the Language Log has been a leading linguist that debunks this myth; whenever it’s raised in popular media he takes pains to point out that there has never been a study that shows large differences between men and women in number of words per day. Typically the differences are small, and the larger differences are infra-gender, and vary by mood and context.
I’d link it but I’m on my iPhone… Can you believe there’s no copy and paste on this thing?
Did you say something…?
j/k
(look at who you’re dating, look at the pattern, apply standards which filter out undesireable results thus breaking the pattern you find undesireable)
OK, now I’m on my laptop (when I should be out partying like it’s Friday), so I can offer links in support of my previous comment.
In an effort to stave off a threadjack and potential flame war, I’m posting my summary of Mark Lieberman’s counter-argument on my own blog.
Speaking of listening selectively, I want to point out that I puffed up in pride when I read Athena’s words about me usually being right. I love hearing that.
You need to start throwing in subliminal messages into the important things. Like “Hot sex pull over at the next exit so I can walk around”.
yes, it is a guy thing..to some extent, and yes it is something you’ll have to live with if you can’t change it and its not a deal-breaker (ie, it is a FRIEND OR RELATIVE)..if it is a deal breaker (they dont’ have enough balancing qualities to make it worth it) or they are a potential mate, you may want to throw them out with the bath water. If it isn’t a deal breaker (someone who is so amazing you are willing to look past it) then you can try to change the communication path and see if that works, like with Bunny I’ve found that I always have to make it really clear what is important to me and what is just idle thinking-aloud because he rarely makes concrete statements he doesn’t recognize them unles they are pointed out as a “hey, this is a concrete statement, this particular thing is really really important to me”. but then if you do he is very attentive, and since he picks up on idle thought out loud type talking, he’ll surprise me with something he saw me looking at or thinking about and get/take me/show me it.
..or at least if it becomes repetative they aren’t.
So basically I think it is a male trend, but I’ve noticed that if I go “next pullout I need to get out” and then say “I’ll look for it for you, its really important” and then point it out it usually works, and if it doesn’t, they aren’t probably worth it!
But, when looking for a mate i think it is really important to know what you will let slide and what you won’t as far as communication goes, that way you can both work toward communicating in ways the other person understands and you can put boundaries down when you feel that isn’t happening and then you have to ask yourself “is this worth it” and if it is you keep trying until you ask yourself again, and if it isn’t you know you need to take steps to end it.
I’ve been having that communication thing lately a lot, it has come up a lot but we both feel that even though we communicate VERY differently it is worth it, which ultimately is the only question worth asking when you are thinking of ending/losing/never getting into a relationship. Not “can i change him?” cause you can’t, or at least only the surface things, not “can i change myself” cause the same applies, but “is it worth it”..is it worth working on? is it worth you both having to adjust communications…
sorry…tangent.
but yes.
boy thing: yes.
dealable: if a friend or relative, automatic yes usually
worth it: only you can tell?
avoidable: probably not.
work-on able: probably.
omg! i totally just wrote a giant response and the computer/intertent ate it!
oh. nevermind, my computer just sucks.
Jagermonster,
I never even thought of that! What a great idea! Totally need to add sex to my conversations if I want to be heard.
Thanks! I’ll try it and let you know how it goes.
Megan, I love your giant replies
I think you are right. I’m just going to have to learn to work around it when I can, and when I can’t – well then, move on.
Being part of a dynamic that includes communication that is receptive and giving is important enough to me that I will not settle without it.
I miss you
Athena
Resounding Yes, Athena, I think it is more a ‘man’ thing. What Dom said is the exact argument I have been working through with my significant(ly intolerable) hottie. and I nearly screamed with rage just from reading Dom’s post.
Him: I don’t know why you have to be so negative, I would respond better if you were more positive.
Me: But I think I do try to be positive, for example blah blah… And when I am mad, it’s usually because I am in tears before you bother to take me seriously or listen to what I say!
Him: So, are we going to Fairbanks this weekend?
Me: What?!
Him: Well, I want to go to Fairbanks this weekend and just wanted to know if you are going?
Me: AAAAAAAAAARGH! Don’t you think we need to finish the previous $#@* conversation?
Him: Well, I thought we were done, I said what I needed to say.
Some days I am a man-hater, but I swear it’s justified! On a more realistic note, however, that doesn’t happen all the time, and shouldn’t – couldn’t! Whether or not men are typically like that, I refuse to deal with much of it. Like everyone’s saying, you can do your best to make things clear and think of creative methods wet pussy to get things across : ) But if you have to fight to be heard all the time, I really can’t see it being worth it no matter what the other qualities are.